The Locked up Living Podcast: Surviving and thriving in prisons and other challenging environments

14. Dr Rowan Mackenzie on forming a theatre company in a prison.

Rowan Mackenzie is both academic and practitioner. Her doctoral research on Creating Space for Shakespeare with Marginalised Communities considered how Shakespeare can be appropriated by people with learning disabilities, people with mental health issues, people who are incarcerated and people who have experienced homelessness. She is also Artistic Director of Shakespeare UnBard, having worked in English prisons since 2017, founding theatre companies (The Gallowfield Players and Emergency Shakespeare). The theatre companies are run entirely collaboratively with each actor having equal ownership, encouraging them to develop positive autonomy, self-confidence and transferable skills. She works with a wide-ranging population including those serving life sentences and those convicted of sexual offences. She has won numerous awards for the quality and effectiveness of her work including Prisoner Learning Alliance Outstanding Individual, Worshipful Company of Educators Inspirational Educator for Shakespeare and is currently shortlisted for the prestigious a Butler Trust Commendation. She is also a Trustee for 1623Theatre and Shakespeare consultant for Blue Apple Theatre. She has published and spoken about her work nationally and internationally in fields including criminology, prison education, Shakespeare, social justice and applied theatre and co-organised the annual Applying Shakespeare Symposiums. She is in the process of establishing a theatre company for those released from prison and also works with children of incarcerated parents.

13. David Jones and Naomi Murphy talk about their first ten podcasts.

This short conversation gives David and Naomi a chance to talk about their first ten podcasts and the great conversations they have had with their generous collaborators.

12. Lawrence Jones -Trauma. A psychologist’s journey from Wormwood Scrubs to Rampton Hospital.

What's it like to work in a high secure hospital with people who have not only committed serious violent or sexually violent crimes but also been victim of similar offences?  How does working in a hospital compare with working in a therapeutic community in a prison?  Is it possible to create compassionate cultures in total institutions?
 
In this conversation Lawrence gives a fascinating description of the therapeutic community at Wormwood Scrubs prison which closed soon after the death of Dr Max Glatt. He goes on to give us insight into his developing thinking on the nature of trauma and states of mind as it relates to forensic practice.  
Lawrence Jones is a clinical and forensic psychologist, currently Head of Psychology at Rampton High Secure Hospital and Honorary Associate Clinical Professor at Nottingham University. He teaches regularly on the Sheffield and Leicester Clinical Psychology doctorate courses as well as the Forensic Doctorate at Nottingham University, He has previously been the Chair of the Division of Forensic Psychology.
Lawrence has had a long and extensive career within forensic services across both criminal justice and mental health settings with a significant amount of time spent working within therapeutic communities. Significantly this included the Annexe at Wormwood Scrubs prison, also referred to as the Max Glatt Unit. Lawrence has trained in multiple models of psychological therapy including Schema focused Therapy, Dialectical Behaviour Therapy and Cognitive Analytic therapy which he has integrated into his knowledge of TC culture and treatment and has worked hard throughout his career to try and find ways to ensure the services he is responsible for are as accessible as possible.
Lawrence has very many publications to his name but is particularly interested in furthering an understanding of those who attract a diagnosis of personality disorder and offsetting the adverse impacts of chronic trauma and loss of liberty. 

11. Prison ethnographer Andrew Jefferson - scholar of tragedy and misery

In this conversation Andrew talks about his ongoing work in Myanmar and the concern he and his colleagues share for their colleagues and all the people of the country currently subject to a brutal military coup. He offers us engagingly honest accounts of his study in prisons across Africa and Asia and these give moving insights into the method of this ethnographer.
Andrew Jefferson is an ethnographer with a background in psychology. He is Senior Researcher with Dignity, Danish Institute Against Torture. Since 2000 Andrew has been working on issues related to prisons ‘beyond the west’ with a focus on penal practice and the dynamics and consequences of reform interventions targeting prisons in the global south.
We had a couple of technical hitches during the making of this conversation. You may notice them though they barely show after our editing, but our apologies for this, the content more than makes up for it.

10. Richard Shuker and Geraldine Akerman: HMP Grendon - Jewel in the crown or guilty secret?

HMP Grendon was opened in 1962, with the support of RA Butler then Home Secretary of the conservative government. How times have changed, well have they? In this conversation Geraldine Akerman and Richard Shuker talk about their 40 years of combined experience in this unique therapeutic prison.  What's it like to work in a therapeutic community with people who've committed violent crimes? How does a prison run on therapeutic community principles differ from other prison settings? What are some of the unique challenges faced in this setting? Does it matter that the whole prison runs with this ethos?
Hon. Professor DR. GERALDINE AKERMAN is a Forensic Psychologist and Therapy Manager at HMP Grendon. She has worked for the prison service since 1999 assessing risk and providing treatment to men convicted of violent and sexual offences and with complex needs. She is the Chair of the Executive Committee of the Division of Forensic Psychology. Geraldine has co-edited a book on Enabling Environments and one on the subject of assessing and managing problematic sexual interests.  Geraldine was awarded a PhD by the University of Birmingham in 2015.  Geraldine was presented with the Senior Practitioner Award by the Division of Forensic Psychology 2018 for distinguished contribution to Forensic Psychology. 
Richard Shuker is a Chartered Forensic Psychologist and Head of Clinical Services at HMP Grendon, a therapeutic community for prisoners with a personality disorder. Formerly lead psychologist within Grendon he now leads the clinical and research provision within its therapeutic communities. He spent the early part of his career working with young offenders and his special interests now include the assessment and treatment of offenders with personality disorders and other complex needs. He is particularly interested in relationships and social climate within prisons and how these can provide the conditions for change. He is Series Editor for the book series Issues in Forensic Psychology. He has published widely in areas including risk assessment, treatment readiness, social climate and trauma, therapeutic outcome and clinical intervention. He has co-edited a number of books and journals in the field of forensic psychology and therapeutic communities.

9. Dr Abdullah Mia - What’s it like to be a Muslim Clinical Psychologist working in forensic services?

Do people of Muslim faith experience additional challenges in forensic services? What's it like to work in services characterised by institutional racism if you're a person of colour?
Abdullah Mia joins us in a fascinating conversation about his work, his background as a muslim whose family came from India and how this has influenced his life. As a Consultant Clinical Psychologist Abdullah has a profound influence upon the places he works. He describes his frequent encounters with racism, how he actively copes with this, confronting it when necessary. He shares his experiences of developing as a person, a practitioner and a leader. The title, 'Rely on your own heart and reason,....and divine inspiration', is a quotation from Homer that Abdullah endorses saying, 'this is as far away from British Psychology as it is possible to be'.
 
Abdullah Mia Biography
My personal history influences me as much as my professional history, therefore I come from a Indian Gujarati Muslim background, and was encouraged to celebrate other people’s cultures even though they were not my own ie. Christmas, Diwali etc.  Here began my ‘difference is OK’ experiences, in the context of ongoing anxiety about racism as I grew up.  My family also have a strong traditional element, which means hierarchies of respect entwined with patriarchal and caste based systems.  This also introduced me to difference can be ‘bad’.  This personal conflict has taken some time to understand and process and the way I have navigated difficult conversations with family and community also influence how I navigate hierarchies within my professional life.
 
My professional life has varied, beginning as  teaching assistant, through to a reparation officer with YOT teams in Lancashire, and then as a youth worker.  As a youth worker, I also began volunteering as an Assistant Psychologist, before a paid post in a community psychology project in Liverpool working with refugees and asylum seekers, I think unconsciously and consciously I have been always motivated to work with difference and marginalised groups, and this has contributed to me also working with offenders.  Moments of reflection seem to lead me to think that it's linked with my own experiences of inhabiting multiple worlds, and navigating these stressors and joys.  Since training as a clinical psychologist, I have also completed training in group analysis (but not the full analyst training!) and really like to incorporate how the social and political worlds present in our bodies and our minds.  This combined with my continued in how people navigate racial and ethnic differences in the work, and how this can also give us some understanding and learning about what it means to navigate multiple spheres of life, and ultimately different conflicts.

8. Professor Lorna Rhodes - an anthropologist analyses HMP Grendon & Washington State Prison

What can forensic psychology learn from medical and institutional anthropology?  Should forensic psychology be learning from other professionals?
Lorna A. Rhodes is professor emeritus at the University of Washington, where she taught medical and institutional anthropology.  She is the author of Emptying Beds: The Work of an Emergency Psychiatric Unit (University of California Press 1991) and Total Confinement: Madness and Reason in the Maximum Security Prison (University of California Press 2004).  She has published several articles about HMP Grendon, where she spent a month conducting research in 2008. Every working day she went to B wing therapeutic community, attending community meetings and talking with staff and residents. This conversation looks at this experience and compares it with research done at a high secure unit in a prison in Washington State.
 
Lorna's publications can be bought here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Lorna+rhodes+anthropology&crid=1GL6T6Q6FZG9O&sprefix=lorna+rhodes+anthropology%2Caps%2C223&ref=nb_sb_noss

7. Michaela Booth Criminalised women in leadership roles within the criminal justice system

What is it like to be a woman in prison? What barriers do criminalised women face to create employment opportunities afterwards? What are the benefits of employing people with lived experience of custody if we want to improve the criminal justice system? What would criminal justice policy look like if we employed those with lived experience? What prejudice do people with lived experience face and is the criminal justice system guilty of exploiting their expertise?  How can faith in someone help turn their life around? Do we harness placing value on the human being in our efforts to rehabilitate?
Michaela Booth is the National Patient Engagement Lead for Care UK’s Health in Justice service that runs healthcare in 50 prisons across England, including Hewell and Long Lartin. She also has an Honours Degree and an MSc in Applied Criminology.  Michaela was sentenced to 4 years in prison for a crime she was found guilty of when she was 19 years old. She was sentenced at the age of 21 when her daughter was 4 years old.  In this powerful conversation Michaela describes her views on the criminal justice system for women and mothers and makes a convincing case for the importance of those with lived experience having leadership roles and contributing to policy.

6. Dr Gwen Adshead - Transition from psychiatrist to psychotherapist in Broadmoor High Secure Hospital

What's it like to work in a high secure hospital with some of the countries most dangerous patients? What's the role of a forensic psychiatrist? Are there benefits to training as a psychotherapist once you're professionally qualified? How do professionals cope with working with patients who are not only traumatised but also frightening? Do psychiatrists get enough clinical supervision for the work they do? How can psychiatrists take better care of themselves?
Dr Gwen Adshead describes her long relationship with Broadmoor Hospital. This notorious institution was built in the 19th century as Broadmoor Criminal Lunatic Asylum and accommodated many of the most disturbed pationts in the UK. Gwen talks about her own development from being a psychiatrist to a psychotherapist and how her engagement with object relations and Mentalization Based Treatment helped her to deepen her understanding of deeply disturbed patients. You can find a list of Gwen's books here:
https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/878290.Gwen_Adshead
 

5. Professor David Wilson & Professor Michael Brookes - The Barlinnie Special Unit: A failed success

Can therapeutic environments survive the long haul in prisons?  What happens when prison environments emphasise recovery and growth?
 
Professor Michael Brookes (OBE) and Professor David Wilson of Birmingham City Hospital talk about their recent article, A failed success: the Barlinnie Special Unit, which came out in International Journal of Prisoner Health August 2020. They consider this unit, to most appearances highly successful working with men who the rest of the scottish prison service had struggled to contain, and why it ultimately closed. The conversation extends to thinking about why some highly creative organisations succeed and others fail.  
Professor Michael Brookes was formerly Director of Therapeutic Communities at HMP Grendon where for eleven years he was the clinical lead within this accredited therapeutic community prison.
https://www.bcu.ac.uk/research/-centres-of-excellence/centre-for-applied-criminology/people/michael-brookes
 
David Wilson is an expert on serial killers through his work with various British police forces, academic publications, books, and media appearances. He can be found at: https://professorwilson.co.uk
 

4. Morgan Godvin: Does prison cure addiction?

Society often assumes that drug addicts benefit from prison? Can prison help people recover from substance misuse? Or does prison make recovering from an addiction harder?  What happens when drugs are decriminalised? What kind of services and laws are developed when people with lived experience are involved in their creation? Would there be less addiction if we were more compassionate towards people addicted to drugs?
In this episode, Morgan Godvin shares her inspirational story.  Morgan serves as a commissioner on the Oregon Alcohol and Drug Policy Commission. She is in long term recovery and spent four years in prison following the death of her close friend from an overdose. She is a passionate advocate for drug, and penal reform. She is powerful in describing the difficult times she has experienced but optimimistic that change could be on the way. The inspirational book she suggests is Righteous Dopefiend (California Series in Public Anthropology): 21 by Philippe Bourgois and Jeff Schonberg:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Righteous-Dopefiend-California-Public-Anthropology/dp/0520254988/ref=sr_1_1?crid=28Z4LJWNPGWV&keywords=righteous+dopefiend&qid=1670954452&sprefix=righteous+dopefiend%2Caps%2C72&sr=8-1
 

3. Liz Mullinar - The Heal for Life Foundation treating trauma and the effects of abuse.

What are the long-term effects of child abuse on children? What are some of the barriers that make it difficult for survivors of childhood abuse to trust in service providers? Can people with lived experience of severe physical, sexual and emotional abuse in childhood find ways to offer therapeutic services in a way that improves opportunities for healing? In this episode the Liz Mullinar shares her inspirational story of how she came to found the Heal For Life Foundation (Mayumarri) in 1999 to provide a safe centre for survivors where they could heal from the devastating impact of trauma and abuse. The Heal For Life model has since helped over 8,500 people across Australia and the world and has been independently evaluated to achieve significant, long-term improvements in mental, social and emotional health. This provides a different approach to working with trauma andthe elements of the work could be integrated into many settings.
 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Heal-Life-Yourself-Childhood-Trauma/dp/0648536521/ref=sr_1_2?crid=OBCHO2COH732&keywords=liz+mullinar&qid=1670954030&sprefix=Liz+Mullinar%2Caps%2C109&sr=8-2
 
 

2. Gareth Ross and Lucy Reading - Measuring social climate in a prison

Does everyone who ends up in prison get the same kind of experience? Do all prison environments "feel" the same? Do different kinds of prison settings have a different kind of atmosphere? Why might it be useful to measure the social climate of a prison or to compare and contrast them?  Are some environments more compassionate? Does the presence of psychologists or psychotherapists make a difference to how a wing is run? Is prison more effective when it involves a psychological approach?
 
Gareth Ross and Lucy Reading tell us about their recently published research which describes the social climate across therapeutic and non therapeutic wings in the Category B prison, HMP Gartree

1. Locked up Living: Introduction to the podcast and trailer for what’s to come

What's it like to work in a prison? Is it any different to working in a secure hospital? Meet the co-hosts of Locked Up Living.
Locked up Living is a Podcast examining aspects of resiliance for those locked up in prisons and hospitals and the staff who look after them. Psychotherapist David Jones and Psychologist Naomi Murphy introduce themselves and talk about their own experiences and how they came to spend their lives working in prisons. This is the preface to a series of interviews from the fields of anthropology, criminology, psychology, psychiarty and psychotherapy and with people whose lived experience gives them a unique and powerful perspective.