The Locked up Living Podcast: Surviving and thriving in prisons and other challenging environments

25. Dominique Moran: How can geography help us understand and improve prisons?

Today’s guest is Professor Dominique Moran who is professor of carceral geography Birmingham University so her expertise is in providing a geographical perspective on incarceration.   
Dominique is also Chair of the  Carceral geography Working Group of the Royal Geographical Society with the Institute of British Geographies. 
She is author of “Carceral Geography: Spaces and Practices of Incarceration and editor of a number of texts on spatial geography and its relation to imprisonment.  She is also widely published in a number of leading geographical journals.

24. Sophie Ellis: Servant of the state or therapeutic agent?

Sophie Ellis is a researcher at the Prisons Research Centre, at Cambridge University. She’s interested in the experience of imprisonment for those who live and work in prisons, and in the effects of prison on families. She’s also interested in the intersection between the ‘psy’ disciplines, and state institutions. Before arriving at Cambridge, she spent nine years working in prison-based psychology roles, doing assessments and group-based cognitive-behavioural programmes with prisoners.
During her time in the Prison Service, Sophie conducted research on the psychosocial characteristics of men who behaved violently in custody, and desisted over the course of their sentence. She was interested in how people managed to desist in an environment that typically has elevated levels of violence.
Sophie’s PhD is looking at the role of psychologists in English prisons. It explores their history, their culture, their professional identity, and how they make decisions about deploying their power and expertise in a socially and morally complex environment like prison.  

23. Marc Kozlowski: What’s it like to be a forensic psychologist?.

What does working as a forensic psychologist look like? Should I train as a clinical psychologist or a forensic psychologist? Am I too old to train as an applied psychologist? These are some of dilemmas facing todays guest
Marc originally thought of becoming a clinical psychologist before taking a twenty year break as a software developer. When he returned to psychology he took a different path. 
Marc has been a practitioner forensic psychologist since 2003, becoming chartered with the British Psychological Society in 2006. He was Head of Psychology at four UK prisons, two in England and two in Scotland. In addition to conducting and reporting on risk assessments on serious offenders, Marc was involved in the delivery and management of accredited offending behaviour interventions that addressed intimate partner violence, general violence, sexual offending, substance-related offending, and anger-related violence. One aspect of his role that Marc particularly valued, was supervising Forensic Psychologists in Training as they worked towards chartership. He is delighted to be able to continue this nurturing and guidance role in his work with the students at Edinburgh Napier University.
 
Marc’s specialisms within forensic psychology are personality disordered offenders, intimate partner violence, hostage negotiation, and trauma-informed working.
 
Since joining Edinburgh Napier University, Marc has led on the development of a new Applied Forensic Psychology Master’s programme, which was accredited by the BPS in March 2021. Marc has designed the programme to enable students to develop some of the skills and insights that they will need in the workplace, so that they become immediately helpful to employers once they have graduated.
 
Marc continues, in a private capacity, to conduct risk assessments for both criminal justice and family courts. In this way his skills and experience remain current, something that he hopes will benefit the generation of psychology students currently studying at Edinburgh Napier University.

22. Charlotte Knight, Emotional Literacy in Prisons and the Criminal Justice System

Why are emotions rarely discussed in forensic work? Are we frightened to discuss emotions like fear, sadness and shame? Is it dangerous to discuss these feelings? Would the criminal justice system look different if people did discuss their emotions more openly? 
Somehow emotions and thinking became disconnected from many of our key services. We are fortunate that a number of skilled and experienced practitioners have taken time to reflect on the place of feelings and emotions in everyday life and the way they can affect our judgements.
Our latest guest, Charlotte Knight, began her career in the probation service in 1973 and has extensive experience as a probation officer in a range of settings including both prison and the community.
In the second half of her career, Charlotte has been much more involved in working academically to develop probation officers.  Her academic work involved setting up a diploma in probation studies and enabling the creation of a degree in criminology at De Montfort Uni.  She completed a PhD in criminology in 2012 on the subject of emotional literacy in criminal justice and the book that emerged from this is a refreshing read for anyone who’s involved with the CJS. (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Emotional-Literacy-Criminal-Justice-Professional/dp/1137273208)
Although Charlotte retired from full-time teaching in 2011, she’s continued to work on a number of European Probation projects and also wrote a second book on LGBT people and the CJS.  (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lesbian-Bisexual-People-Criminal-Justice/dp/1137496975/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Lesbian%2C+Gay%2C+Bisexual+and+Trans+People+%28LGBT%29+and+the+Criminal+Justice+System&qid=1621372526&s=books&sr=1-1)

21. Robert Canton: Does remorse matter?

Work in the criminal justice sector evokes strong emotions.  Whilst staff might often act as if frightened, angry or disgusted, its rare to hear them speak candidly about these feelings in a healthy manner.  Rob argues the criminal justice system would be a healthier place if feelings like these were discussed.
 
Rob Canton is Professor in Community and Criminal Justice at De Montfort University, Leicester, UK. Before joining De Montfort, he worked in the Probation Service for some 20 years in a number of different roles. Rob has contributed to probation development and general penal reform in more than ten different countries, mostly in Europe. He was co-opted to the Council of Europe to develop the European Probation Rules (2007 - 10) and again in 2015 - 2016 to revise the European Rules on Community Sanctions and Measures. He also acted as a Specialist Adviser to the House ofCommons Justice Select Committee in its Inquiry into the Role of the Probation Service (2010 - 11).
Rob has written a number of articles and book chapters, many about probation, although also about international work and policy transfer. His book, Probation: Working with Offenders , was published by Routledge in 2011, and a second edition, Probation , written with Jane Dominey, came out at the end of 2017. More recently, he has been trying to understand punishment more widely and Why Punish? An Introduction to the Philosophy of Punishment was published by Palgrave Macmillan in June 2017.

20. Leslie Soble and Roy Waterman: Food in Prison

We are very excited by this episode and had a great time meeting our two guests from the USA. Food is central to our existence, health and wellbeing. All of us.
Leslie Soble is a research fellow for the Food in Prison Project and the lead author of Impact Justice’s recent report, Eating Behind Bars: Ending the Hidden Punishment of Food in Prison. An ethnographer and folklorist, Leslie holds an MA in cultural sustainability with a focus on the intersection of foodways, narrative theory, and social practice art. 
Roy Waterman is a chef, mentor, activist and agent of change, one who is committed to assisting in the growth and the development of the lives of all people, especially those formerly incarcerated.
Leslie and Roy engage in a stimulating and hard hitting conversation about the meaning of food in prison, how it is managed and used as a tool to further punish and humiliate incarcerated people. This was the starting point in a discussion which touched upon the use of language and the matter of power and politics in the administration of justice.
For more on how to avoid the use of negative language follow this link. https://cmjcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/CNUS-AppropriateLanguage.pdf

19. Sarah Peyton - trauma and women in prison

"In this episode David and Naomi talk with Sarah Peyton a neuroscience educator, constellation facilitator, Nonviolent Communication Trainer and author of Your Resonant Self and Your Resonant Self Workbook about her work with women in a prison in the USA.  Sarah invites audiences into a compassionate understanding of the effects of relational trauma on the brain and teaches about how to use resonance to change and heal.  She discusses how introducing people to the neuroscience of trauma can help them gain mastery over their past.  
 
Check out her website www.sarahpeyton.com to find stacks of resources including meditations that are tailored for those who might struggle to participate in this ordinarily".  
 

18. Roland Woodward - forensic psychology and therapeutic environments

Roland Woodward is a chartered forensic psychologist and has more than forty years’ experience of working in the criminal justice system, most of it within the prison service. Roland worked at HMP Grendon and has also managed the psychological services at HMP Gartree where he opened the first therapeutic community for life sentence prisoners. Following that he was the first Director of Therapy at the Dovegate prison therapeutic community which has 200 residents in five different communities. In this conversation he describes his beginning at the young offender's prison Glen Parva and how he learned about therapeutic communities from Judy Mackenzie before moving to HMP Grendon to be 'deconstructed'. This is an amusing and vivid account of his time from being a 'junior' psychologist to creating a major treatment facility at HMP Dovegate and the way that his philosophy developed and influenced his policy decisions

17. Dr Gerard Drennan on Restorative Justice

What is Restorative Justice? Is it a "soft touch" approach to crime and reducing offending?  How do victims of crime experience RJ? Does punishment work better?
 
Dr Gerard Drennan Ph.D. is a Consultant Clinical Psychologist and Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist, who holds the post of Head of Psychology & Psychotherapy in the Behavioural & Developmental Psychiatric Operational Directorate of the South London & Maudsley Mental Health Foundation Trust. He is also an Honorary Lecturer at the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology & Neuroscience at Kings College London.Gerard qualified as a clinical psychologist in Cape Town.His doctoral research examined the practical and political role of language and interpreters in mental health practice in post-colonial, institutional settings.This research ran concurrently with the work of South African Truth and Reconciliation and was touched, as all South Africans were, by the restorative aspirations of that nation-building endeavour.Gerard has held clinical and leadership roles in forensic and offender mental health settings in London and Sussex for the past 20 years. This included a leadership role in developing the Millfield Unit, part of the Personality Disorder and DSPD project. He has published on the implementation of recovery-oriented practice and, since training in restorative justice conferencing in 2012, has worked and written on the place of restorative justice practices in mental health settings.

16. Justin Wiggan - the therapeutic benefits of sound

Sound artist, Justin Wiggan has been described as “one of the most important artists working across arts and health right now.  His ground-breaking work has huge potential for impact across life sciences and is a testament to the power of creativity in health and well-being”.
Anyone who has been inside a prison will have experienced the eerie
silence when everyone is locked up and the cacophony of sound at other times. We may learn to neutralise those sounds but Justin shows how sound has beauty and meaning
 Justin’s practice includes a range of media from sound, phonics, film, drawing, installation, interventions and performance and he’s collaborated with a wide range of individuals across medical, research and creative industries sectors.  His works have been exhibited nationally and internationally and he has described his own aim as being to educate, share and engage people with sound and reconnect with their lives using sound art.
 
In addition to his artistic practice, Justin has extended his artistic practice to work with young people and community groups particularly those associated with increased vulnerability such as within palliative care and mental health.
 
Finally, Justin runs Glass Twin a company that use sound as a tool to promote mental well-being through developing soundscapes and he’s worked within hospices, prison and schools as well as with the emergency services and charities supporting people with mental health needs.   It’s within this capacity where Naomi came across Justin who worked with her to try and find some ways to enrich the environment of the Fens Unit, Whitemoor Prison, and create meaningful use of sound.
http://www.justinwiggan.co.uk/ 
https://uk.linkedin.com/company/glass-twin-limited?trk=public_profile_topcard-current-company
 

15. Dr Robin Hadley on Male Involuntary Childlessness

What's it like to be a male desperate to be a parent but experiencing childlessness?  
Dr Rob Hadley is an independent research consultant who has conducted research with the Open University and Manchester Metropolitan University where he is an associate lecturer. His research concerns the impact of male involuntary childlessness across the life course. He studied the topic for his dissertation and discovered there was very little information about men’s desire for fatherhood or experience of unwanted childlessness. 
He is also a counsellor and author of Male Childlessness as well as numerous book chapters and journal articles on this theme.
This may seem like an unusual topic for us but there are many men who are incarcerated for years and from an early age. For those men in the high secure estate who aren’t already fathers when they come to prison they are likely spend the period of life most associated with reproductive success inside and possibly miss the boat altogether. 
Rob has been unshirking in facing up to the issues around involuntary childlessness. Many of these issues are rarely spoken about, if at all and it does not always make for comfortable listening. But in the end it makes for an affecting and thought provoking conversation.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Man-Supposed-Childlessness-Reproduction-ebook/dp/B08XJCVRZJ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=35ETNMYHPQYXA&keywords=male+childlessness&qid=1671062273&sprefix=male+childlessness%2Caps%2C65&sr=8-1
 

14. Dr Rowan Mackenzie on forming a theatre company in a prison.

Rowan Mackenzie is both academic and practitioner. Her doctoral research on Creating Space for Shakespeare with Marginalised Communities considered how Shakespeare can be appropriated by people with learning disabilities, people with mental health issues, people who are incarcerated and people who have experienced homelessness. She is also Artistic Director of Shakespeare UnBard, having worked in English prisons since 2017, founding theatre companies (The Gallowfield Players and Emergency Shakespeare). The theatre companies are run entirely collaboratively with each actor having equal ownership, encouraging them to develop positive autonomy, self-confidence and transferable skills. She works with a wide-ranging population including those serving life sentences and those convicted of sexual offences. She has won numerous awards for the quality and effectiveness of her work including Prisoner Learning Alliance Outstanding Individual, Worshipful Company of Educators Inspirational Educator for Shakespeare and is currently shortlisted for the prestigious a Butler Trust Commendation. She is also a Trustee for 1623Theatre and Shakespeare consultant for Blue Apple Theatre. She has published and spoken about her work nationally and internationally in fields including criminology, prison education, Shakespeare, social justice and applied theatre and co-organised the annual Applying Shakespeare Symposiums. She is in the process of establishing a theatre company for those released from prison and also works with children of incarcerated parents.

13. David Jones and Naomi Murphy talk about their first ten podcasts.

This short conversation gives David and Naomi a chance to talk about their first ten podcasts and the great conversations they have had with their generous collaborators.

12. Lawrence Jones -Trauma. A psychologist’s journey from Wormwood Scrubs to Rampton Hospital.

What's it like to work in a high secure hospital with people who have not only committed serious violent or sexually violent crimes but also been victim of similar offences?  How does working in a hospital compare with working in a therapeutic community in a prison?  Is it possible to create compassionate cultures in total institutions?
 
In this conversation Lawrence gives a fascinating description of the therapeutic community at Wormwood Scrubs prison which closed soon after the death of Dr Max Glatt. He goes on to give us insight into his developing thinking on the nature of trauma and states of mind as it relates to forensic practice.  
Lawrence Jones is a clinical and forensic psychologist, currently Head of Psychology at Rampton High Secure Hospital and Honorary Associate Clinical Professor at Nottingham University. He teaches regularly on the Sheffield and Leicester Clinical Psychology doctorate courses as well as the Forensic Doctorate at Nottingham University, He has previously been the Chair of the Division of Forensic Psychology.
Lawrence has had a long and extensive career within forensic services across both criminal justice and mental health settings with a significant amount of time spent working within therapeutic communities. Significantly this included the Annexe at Wormwood Scrubs prison, also referred to as the Max Glatt Unit. Lawrence has trained in multiple models of psychological therapy including Schema focused Therapy, Dialectical Behaviour Therapy and Cognitive Analytic therapy which he has integrated into his knowledge of TC culture and treatment and has worked hard throughout his career to try and find ways to ensure the services he is responsible for are as accessible as possible.
Lawrence has very many publications to his name but is particularly interested in furthering an understanding of those who attract a diagnosis of personality disorder and offsetting the adverse impacts of chronic trauma and loss of liberty. 

11. Prison ethnographer Andrew Jefferson - scholar of tragedy and misery

In this conversation Andrew talks about his ongoing work in Myanmar and the concern he and his colleagues share for their colleagues and all the people of the country currently subject to a brutal military coup. He offers us engagingly honest accounts of his study in prisons across Africa and Asia and these give moving insights into the method of this ethnographer.
Andrew Jefferson is an ethnographer with a background in psychology. He is Senior Researcher with Dignity, Danish Institute Against Torture. Since 2000 Andrew has been working on issues related to prisons ‘beyond the west’ with a focus on penal practice and the dynamics and consequences of reform interventions targeting prisons in the global south.
We had a couple of technical hitches during the making of this conversation. You may notice them though they barely show after our editing, but our apologies for this, the content more than makes up for it.

10. Richard Shuker and Geraldine Akerman: HMP Grendon - Jewel in the crown or guilty secret?

HMP Grendon was opened in 1962, with the support of RA Butler then Home Secretary of the conservative government. How times have changed, well have they? In this conversation Geraldine Akerman and Richard Shuker talk about their 40 years of combined experience in this unique therapeutic prison.  What's it like to work in a therapeutic community with people who've committed violent crimes? How does a prison run on therapeutic community principles differ from other prison settings? What are some of the unique challenges faced in this setting? Does it matter that the whole prison runs with this ethos?
Hon. Professor DR. GERALDINE AKERMAN is a Forensic Psychologist and Therapy Manager at HMP Grendon. She has worked for the prison service since 1999 assessing risk and providing treatment to men convicted of violent and sexual offences and with complex needs. She is the Chair of the Executive Committee of the Division of Forensic Psychology. Geraldine has co-edited a book on Enabling Environments and one on the subject of assessing and managing problematic sexual interests.  Geraldine was awarded a PhD by the University of Birmingham in 2015.  Geraldine was presented with the Senior Practitioner Award by the Division of Forensic Psychology 2018 for distinguished contribution to Forensic Psychology. 
Richard Shuker is a Chartered Forensic Psychologist and Head of Clinical Services at HMP Grendon, a therapeutic community for prisoners with a personality disorder. Formerly lead psychologist within Grendon he now leads the clinical and research provision within its therapeutic communities. He spent the early part of his career working with young offenders and his special interests now include the assessment and treatment of offenders with personality disorders and other complex needs. He is particularly interested in relationships and social climate within prisons and how these can provide the conditions for change. He is Series Editor for the book series Issues in Forensic Psychology. He has published widely in areas including risk assessment, treatment readiness, social climate and trauma, therapeutic outcome and clinical intervention. He has co-edited a number of books and journals in the field of forensic psychology and therapeutic communities.

9. Dr Abdullah Mia - What’s it like to be a Muslim Clinical Psychologist working in forensic services?

Do people of Muslim faith experience additional challenges in forensic services? What's it like to work in services characterised by institutional racism if you're a person of colour?
Abdullah Mia joins us in a fascinating conversation about his work, his background as a muslim whose family came from India and how this has influenced his life. As a Consultant Clinical Psychologist Abdullah has a profound influence upon the places he works. He describes his frequent encounters with racism, how he actively copes with this, confronting it when necessary. He shares his experiences of developing as a person, a practitioner and a leader. The title, 'Rely on your own heart and reason,....and divine inspiration', is a quotation from Homer that Abdullah endorses saying, 'this is as far away from British Psychology as it is possible to be'.
 
Abdullah Mia Biography
My personal history influences me as much as my professional history, therefore I come from a Indian Gujarati Muslim background, and was encouraged to celebrate other people’s cultures even though they were not my own ie. Christmas, Diwali etc.  Here began my ‘difference is OK’ experiences, in the context of ongoing anxiety about racism as I grew up.  My family also have a strong traditional element, which means hierarchies of respect entwined with patriarchal and caste based systems.  This also introduced me to difference can be ‘bad’.  This personal conflict has taken some time to understand and process and the way I have navigated difficult conversations with family and community also influence how I navigate hierarchies within my professional life.
 
My professional life has varied, beginning as  teaching assistant, through to a reparation officer with YOT teams in Lancashire, and then as a youth worker.  As a youth worker, I also began volunteering as an Assistant Psychologist, before a paid post in a community psychology project in Liverpool working with refugees and asylum seekers, I think unconsciously and consciously I have been always motivated to work with difference and marginalised groups, and this has contributed to me also working with offenders.  Moments of reflection seem to lead me to think that it's linked with my own experiences of inhabiting multiple worlds, and navigating these stressors and joys.  Since training as a clinical psychologist, I have also completed training in group analysis (but not the full analyst training!) and really like to incorporate how the social and political worlds present in our bodies and our minds.  This combined with my continued in how people navigate racial and ethnic differences in the work, and how this can also give us some understanding and learning about what it means to navigate multiple spheres of life, and ultimately different conflicts.

8. Professor Lorna Rhodes - an anthropologist analyses HMP Grendon & Washington State Prison

What can forensic psychology learn from medical and institutional anthropology?  Should forensic psychology be learning from other professionals?
Lorna A. Rhodes is professor emeritus at the University of Washington, where she taught medical and institutional anthropology.  She is the author of Emptying Beds: The Work of an Emergency Psychiatric Unit (University of California Press 1991) and Total Confinement: Madness and Reason in the Maximum Security Prison (University of California Press 2004).  She has published several articles about HMP Grendon, where she spent a month conducting research in 2008. Every working day she went to B wing therapeutic community, attending community meetings and talking with staff and residents. This conversation looks at this experience and compares it with research done at a high secure unit in a prison in Washington State.
 
Lorna's publications can be bought here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Lorna+rhodes+anthropology&crid=1GL6T6Q6FZG9O&sprefix=lorna+rhodes+anthropology%2Caps%2C223&ref=nb_sb_noss

7. Michaela Booth Criminalised women in leadership roles within the criminal justice system

What is it like to be a woman in prison? What barriers do criminalised women face to create employment opportunities afterwards? What are the benefits of employing people with lived experience of custody if we want to improve the criminal justice system? What would criminal justice policy look like if we employed those with lived experience? What prejudice do people with lived experience face and is the criminal justice system guilty of exploiting their expertise?  How can faith in someone help turn their life around? Do we harness placing value on the human being in our efforts to rehabilitate?
Michaela Booth is the National Patient Engagement Lead for Care UK’s Health in Justice service that runs healthcare in 50 prisons across England, including Hewell and Long Lartin. She also has an Honours Degree and an MSc in Applied Criminology.  Michaela was sentenced to 4 years in prison for a crime she was found guilty of when she was 19 years old. She was sentenced at the age of 21 when her daughter was 4 years old.  In this powerful conversation Michaela describes her views on the criminal justice system for women and mothers and makes a convincing case for the importance of those with lived experience having leadership roles and contributing to policy.

6. Dr Gwen Adshead - Transition from psychiatrist to psychotherapist in Broadmoor High Secure Hospital

What's it like to work in a high secure hospital with some of the countries most dangerous patients? What's the role of a forensic psychiatrist? Are there benefits to training as a psychotherapist once you're professionally qualified? How do professionals cope with working with patients who are not only traumatised but also frightening? Do psychiatrists get enough clinical supervision for the work they do? How can psychiatrists take better care of themselves?
Dr Gwen Adshead describes her long relationship with Broadmoor Hospital. This notorious institution was built in the 19th century as Broadmoor Criminal Lunatic Asylum and accommodated many of the most disturbed pationts in the UK. Gwen talks about her own development from being a psychiatrist to a psychotherapist and how her engagement with object relations and Mentalization Based Treatment helped her to deepen her understanding of deeply disturbed patients. You can find a list of Gwen's books here:
https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/878290.Gwen_Adshead