The Locked up Living Podcast: Surviving and thriving in prisons and other challenging environments
Can institutional culture challenge your mental health? What if your job makes you feel shame, sadness, grief, disgust and fear? What if you are expected not to feel? Or you are expected to be relentlessly competitive? What it’s like to live or work in a prison? Does working with people who commit murder, child abuse and rape affect people who work in prisons and the wider criminal justice system?
How do people survive and thrive when facing significant challenges to our emotional health over a lengthy period? How do we protect ourselves and stay compassionate, loving and trusting? Importantly, how do we find and preserve hope?
Fyodor Dostoevsky wrote that “The degree of civilisation in a society can be judged by entering its prisons”. In this weekly podcast ,your hosts, David Jones (Forensic psychotherapist) and Dr Naomi Murphy (Consultant Clinical & Forensic Psychologist) hope that exploring less visible aspects of prisons will help listeners see that prisons are a window into society and let us see people not only at their worst but also at their best. We feature a rich range of guests sharing snap shots of life in prisons and take a look at hospitals, schools, sport and the police in order to learn from other institutions. We learn about challenges to human integrity and hear important lessons and heart-warming stories about survival and growth when facing adversity in harsh places. We hope that sharing our conversations can help you make changes to your own relationship with institutions that might challenge your emotional health and well-being.
Follow and connect with us and give us feedback. Let us know what you think works, and also what doesn’t. We want you to look forward to the podcast each week. We’ll also be extremely grateful for any reviews that you give us. A simple star or two or a thumbs up will do.
Email: lockedupliving@gmail.com or connect with us on:
Substack: https://lockedupliving.substack.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LockedUpLiving
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomimurphypsychologist/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-jones-41910b12/
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/lockedupliving/
Can institutional culture challenge your mental health? What if your job makes you feel shame, sadness, grief, disgust and fear? What if you are expected not to feel? Or you are expected to be relentlessly competitive? What it’s like to live or work in a prison? Does working with people who commit murder, child abuse and rape affect people who work in prisons and the wider criminal justice system?
How do people survive and thrive when facing significant challenges to our emotional health over a lengthy period? How do we protect ourselves and stay compassionate, loving and trusting? Importantly, how do we find and preserve hope?
Fyodor Dostoevsky wrote that “The degree of civilisation in a society can be judged by entering its prisons”. In this weekly podcast ,your hosts, David Jones (Forensic psychotherapist) and Dr Naomi Murphy (Consultant Clinical & Forensic Psychologist) hope that exploring less visible aspects of prisons will help listeners see that prisons are a window into society and let us see people not only at their worst but also at their best. We feature a rich range of guests sharing snap shots of life in prisons and take a look at hospitals, schools, sport and the police in order to learn from other institutions. We learn about challenges to human integrity and hear important lessons and heart-warming stories about survival and growth when facing adversity in harsh places. We hope that sharing our conversations can help you make changes to your own relationship with institutions that might challenge your emotional health and well-being.
Follow and connect with us and give us feedback. Let us know what you think works, and also what doesn’t. We want you to look forward to the podcast each week. We’ll also be extremely grateful for any reviews that you give us. A simple star or two or a thumbs up will do.
Email: lockedupliving@gmail.com or connect with us on:
Substack: https://lockedupliving.substack.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LockedUpLiving
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomimurphypsychologist/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-jones-41910b12/
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/lockedupliving/
Episodes

6 hours ago
6 hours ago
summary In this episode which is a bit outside of our usual conversations, we meet Max Schurer who shares his multifaceted relationship with comedy, exploring what makes things funny, the purpose of comedy, and its impact on society and individual well-being. We look at the art of stand-up, societal boundaries, and how comedy can both divide and unite.
keywords comedy, stand-up, societal boundaries, humour, mental health, cultural boundaries, comedy festivals, audience engagement
key topics
What makes people laugh and the subjectivity of humour
The purpose of comedy beyond entertainment
The role of comedy in reflecting and challenging society
Different genres of comedy including stand-up and TV comedy
The relationship between comedy and mental health
Cultural boundaries and societal norms in comedy
The craft of performing and the importance of audience reading
Using comedy for societal healing and community engagement
Sound Bites
"What makes one person laugh can insult another"
"Comedy can challenge society and hold a mirror up"
"Laughter releases chemicals that are good for you"
Chapters approximate
0:00Introduction to Max Schurer's Background
01:00Max's Relationship with Comedy
02:36What Makes People Find Things Funny?
04:54The Purpose of Comedy
06:38Genres and Forms of Comedy
07:07Timelessness of Certain Jokes
09:05Repeating Comedy Acts and Audience Loyalty
10:28Visual Comedy and Persona (Tommy Cooper)
10:57Defining 'Good' Comedy and Cultural Boundaries
12:02Different Forms of Comedy: Stand-up, TV, and Sketches
15:26Comedy's Role in Well-being and Happiness
17:03Offense, Boundaries, and Audience Reactions
19:21Comedy and Audience Expectations
20:56Performance Variability and Audience Reception
23:42The Challenges of Being a Comedian
25:37Mental Health and Comedy
33:14Power Dynamics in Comedy
35:35The Challenge of Being Funny on Demand
38:40Authenticity and Boundaries in Comedy
41:52Societal Boundaries and Evolving Norms
45:39Comedy as a Reflection and a Tool for Society
51:40Max's Work in Promoting Comedy and Well-being

6 hours ago
6 hours ago
summary In this episode which is a bit outside of our usual conversations, we meet Max Schurer who shares his multifaceted relationship with comedy, exploring what makes things funny, the purpose of comedy, and its impact on society and individual well-being. We look at the art of stand-up, societal boundaries, and how comedy can both divide and unite.
keywords comedy, stand-up, societal boundaries, humour, mental health, cultural boundaries, comedy festivals, audience engagement
key topics
What makes people laugh and the subjectivity of humour
The purpose of comedy beyond entertainment
The role of comedy in reflecting and challenging society
Different genres of comedy including stand-up and TV comedy
The relationship between comedy and mental health
Cultural boundaries and societal norms in comedy
The craft of performing and the importance of audience reading
Using comedy for societal healing and community engagement
Sound Bites
"What makes one person laugh can insult another"
"Comedy can challenge society and hold a mirror up"
"Laughter releases chemicals that are good for you"
Chapters approximate
0:00Introduction to Max Schurer's Background
01:00Max's Relationship with Comedy
02:36What Makes People Find Things Funny?
04:54The Purpose of Comedy
06:38Genres and Forms of Comedy
07:07Timelessness of Certain Jokes
09:05Repeating Comedy Acts and Audience Loyalty
10:28Visual Comedy and Persona (Tommy Cooper)
10:57Defining 'Good' Comedy and Cultural Boundaries
12:02Different Forms of Comedy: Stand-up, TV, and Sketches
15:26Comedy's Role in Well-being and Happiness
17:03Offense, Boundaries, and Audience Reactions
19:21Comedy and Audience Expectations
20:56Performance Variability and Audience Reception
23:42The Challenges of Being a Comedian
25:37Mental Health and Comedy
33:14Power Dynamics in Comedy
35:35The Challenge of Being Funny on Demand
38:40Authenticity and Boundaries in Comedy
41:52Societal Boundaries and Evolving Norms
45:39Comedy as a Reflection and a Tool for Society
51:40Max's Work in Promoting Comedy and Well-being

Wednesday Jun 17, 2026
Simon Scott 2 (Audio); The Hidden Emotional Toll on Families of Long-Sentenced Prisoners
Wednesday Jun 17, 2026
Wednesday Jun 17, 2026
Simon Scott 2 (Video); The Hidden Emotional Toll on Families of Long-Sentenced Prisoners
This episode examines the often-overlooked emotional and social consequences faced by families of prisoners serving lengthy or life sentences. David Jones and Naomi Murphy talk with Simon Scott, a researcher with lived experience, about his groundbreaking PhD study on the ripple effects of incarceration on loved ones and society.
Main Topics:
The emotional burden and "dark sentences" borne by families of long-term prisoners
Challenges and systemic absurdities within probation and criminal justice support systems
The societal stigma, moral contamination, and moral judgments attached to familial ties with convicted individuals
The concept of a "dark sentence" and its relational impact
Recommendations for recognizing families' roles and improving systemic support structures
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to Simon Scott’s background and research focus02:46 - Exploring why family impact of long sentences is vital to understand04:28 - Methodology: research with family members of prisoners06:00 - The importance of closeness and confidentiality in research08:33 - The theme of family as emotional "punch bag" and displacement11:09 - Family members’ roles in absorbing emotional blows13:24 - Use of phenomenological language like "Kafkaesque" to describe systemic absurdities14:11 - Real-life examples of systemic absurdities impacting families16:06 - The political and systemic obstacles to compassionate policies17:13 - Society’s difficulty in understanding and supporting families of prisoners18:49 - The systemic assumption that more conditions equate to safety20:20 - The absurdity in supporting evidence requests and policy inconsistencies21:22 - Emotional distress, grief, and stigma experienced by families23:03 - Coping mechanisms: silence, peer groups, and advocacy24:49 - The social and relational "dark sentences" that extend beyond incarceration27:16 - The concept of "dark sentences" and their emotional weight30:07 - The relationship between families and probation services32:56 - The societal tendency to stigmatize and judge loved ones of offenders34:42 - The moral contamination of families associated with serious crimes36:19 - Media influence on public attitudes and policy priorities37:38 - What needs to change: recognition and systemic support for families39:12 - Practical suggestions for offering support without systemic fear of repercussions41:02 - Community-led and peer support networks as vital resources42:07 - Personal reflections from Simon on the emotional toll of research44:57 - Final thoughts on change and systemic reform47:13 - Closing remarks and appreciation for sharing this challenging and vital research
Resources & Links:
Partners of Prisoners (POPs)
Probation Services – Official UK Gov Site
This episode examines the often-overlooked emotional and social consequences faced by families of prisoners serving lengthy or life sentences. David Jones and Naomi Murphy talk with Simon Scott, a researcher with lived experience, about his groundbreaking PhD study on the ripple effects of incarceration on loved ones and society.
Main Topics:
The emotional burden and "dark sentences" borne by families of long-term prisoners
Challenges and systemic absurdities within probation and criminal justice support systems
The societal stigma, moral contamination, and moral judgments attached to familial ties with convicted individuals
The concept of a "dark sentence" and its relational impact
Recommendations for recognizing families' roles and improving systemic support structures
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to Simon Scott’s background and research focus02:46 - Exploring why family impact of long sentences is vital to understand04:28 - Methodology: research with family members of prisoners06:00 - The importance of closeness and confidentiality in research08:33 - The theme of family as emotional "punch bag" and displacement11:09 - Family members’ roles in absorbing emotional blows13:24 - Use of phenomenological language like "Kafkaesque" to describe systemic absurdities14:11 - Real-life examples of systemic absurdities impacting families16:06 - The political and systemic obstacles to compassionate policies17:13 - Society’s difficulty in understanding and supporting families of prisoners18:49 - The systemic assumption that more conditions equate to safety20:20 - The absurdity in supporting evidence requests and policy inconsistencies21:22 - Emotional distress, grief, and stigma experienced by families23:03 - Coping mechanisms: silence, peer groups, and advocacy24:49 - The social and relational "dark sentences" that extend beyond incarceration27:16 - The concept of "dark sentences" and their emotional weight30:07 - The relationship between families and probation services32:56 - The societal tendency to stigmatize and judge loved ones of offenders34:42 - The moral contamination of families associated with serious crimes36:19 - Media influence on public attitudes and policy priorities37:38 - What needs to change: recognition and systemic support for families39:12 - Practical suggestions for offering support without systemic fear of repercussions41:02 - Community-led and peer support networks as vital resources42:07 - Personal reflections from Simon on the emotional toll of research44:57 - Final thoughts on change and systemic reform47:13 - Closing remarks and appreciation for sharing this challenging and vital research
Resources & Links:
Partners of Prisoners (POPs)
Probation Services – Official UK Gov Site

Wednesday Jun 17, 2026
Simon Scott 2 (Video); The Hidden Emotional Toll on Families of Long-Sentenced Prisoners
Wednesday Jun 17, 2026
Wednesday Jun 17, 2026
This episode examines the often-overlooked emotional and social consequences faced by families of prisoners serving lengthy or life sentences. David Jones and Naomi Murphy talk with Simon Scott, a researcher with lived experience, about his groundbreaking PhD study on the ripple effects of incarceration on loved ones and society.
Main Topics:
The emotional burden and "dark sentences" borne by families of long-term prisoners
Challenges and systemic absurdities within probation and criminal justice support systems
The societal stigma, moral contamination, and moral judgments attached to familial ties with convicted individuals
The concept of a "dark sentence" and its relational impact
Recommendations for recognizing families' roles and improving systemic support structures
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to Simon Scott’s background and research focus02:46 - Exploring why family impact of long sentences is vital to understand04:28 - Methodology: research with family members of prisoners06:00 - The importance of closeness and confidentiality in research08:33 - The theme of family as emotional "punch bag" and displacement11:09 - Family members’ roles in absorbing emotional blows13:24 - Use of phenomenological language like "Kafkaesque" to describe systemic absurdities14:11 - Real-life examples of systemic absurdities impacting families16:06 - The political and systemic obstacles to compassionate policies17:13 - Society’s difficulty in understanding and supporting families of prisoners18:49 - The systemic assumption that more conditions equate to safety20:20 - The absurdity in supporting evidence requests and policy inconsistencies21:22 - Emotional distress, grief, and stigma experienced by families23:03 - Coping mechanisms: silence, peer groups, and advocacy24:49 - The social and relational "dark sentences" that extend beyond incarceration27:16 - The concept of "dark sentences" and their emotional weight30:07 - The relationship between families and probation services32:56 - The societal tendency to stigmatize and judge loved ones of offenders34:42 - The moral contamination of families associated with serious crimes36:19 - Media influence on public attitudes and policy priorities37:38 - What needs to change: recognition and systemic support for families39:12 - Practical suggestions for offering support without systemic fear of repercussions41:02 - Community-led and peer support networks as vital resources42:07 - Personal reflections from Simon on the emotional toll of research44:57 - Final thoughts on change and systemic reform47:13 - Closing remarks and appreciation for sharing this challenging and vital research
Resources & Links:
Partners of Prisoners (POPs)
Probation Services – Official UK Gov Site
This episode examines the often-overlooked emotional and social consequences faced by families of prisoners serving lengthy or life sentences. David Jones and Naomi Murphy talk with Simon Scott, a researcher with lived experience, about his groundbreaking PhD study on the ripple effects of incarceration on loved ones and society.
Main Topics:
The emotional burden and "dark sentences" borne by families of long-term prisoners
Challenges and systemic absurdities within probation and criminal justice support systems
The societal stigma, moral contamination, and moral judgments attached to familial ties with convicted individuals
The concept of a "dark sentence" and its relational impact
Recommendations for recognizing families' roles and improving systemic support structures
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to Simon Scott’s background and research focus02:46 - Exploring why family impact of long sentences is vital to understand04:28 - Methodology: research with family members of prisoners06:00 - The importance of closeness and confidentiality in research08:33 - The theme of family as emotional "punch bag" and displacement11:09 - Family members’ roles in absorbing emotional blows13:24 - Use of phenomenological language like "Kafkaesque" to describe systemic absurdities14:11 - Real-life examples of systemic absurdities impacting families16:06 - The political and systemic obstacles to compassionate policies17:13 - Society’s difficulty in understanding and supporting families of prisoners18:49 - The systemic assumption that more conditions equate to safety20:20 - The absurdity in supporting evidence requests and policy inconsistencies21:22 - Emotional distress, grief, and stigma experienced by families23:03 - Coping mechanisms: silence, peer groups, and advocacy24:49 - The social and relational "dark sentences" that extend beyond incarceration27:16 - The concept of "dark sentences" and their emotional weight30:07 - The relationship between families and probation services32:56 - The societal tendency to stigmatize and judge loved ones of offenders34:42 - The moral contamination of families associated with serious crimes36:19 - Media influence on public attitudes and policy priorities37:38 - What needs to change: recognition and systemic support for families39:12 - Practical suggestions for offering support without systemic fear of repercussions41:02 - Community-led and peer support networks as vital resources42:07 - Personal reflections from Simon on the emotional toll of research44:57 - Final thoughts on change and systemic reform47:13 - Closing remarks and appreciation for sharing this challenging and vital research
Resources & Links:
Partners of Prisoners (POPs)
Probation Services – Official UK Gov Site

Wednesday Jun 10, 2026
Wednesday Jun 10, 2026
summary
Dr Coral Westaway (Video); Why Should Modern Psychology Embrace Energy and Spirituality?
In this conversation Dr Naomi Murphy and David Jones meet with Dr. Coral Westaway and explore the world of energy psychology, its techniques like EFT, and its integration with traditional psychology. She shares her personal journey, the importance of holistic health, and how energy work can transform mental health practices.
Dr Coral Westaway is a Clinical Psychologist and Energy Psychotherapist with over 20 years of experience at the intersection of psychology, spirituality, and holistic health. Known as The Energy Psychologist, she brings together doctoral - level clinical training with energy psychotherapy, conscious connected breathwork, and body practice; creating a bridge between mainstream psychology and the energetic and spiritual dimensions of our lives.
Coral's work is rooted in a simple but radical belief: that the body holds our truth, and that real transformation happens not just in the mind, but through the whole system. Her own journey with stage 3+ colon cancer in 2021 deepened this understanding profoundly, and now informs everything she does.
Alongside her individual therapy and supervision work, Coral runs The Receiving Revolution : a 7 - week group programme for therapists, psychologists, and helping professionals who chronically overgive. These are the helpers who understand their patterns intellectually but find they cannot shift them at the level of the body and energy. The Receiving Revolution supports them to readdress that imbalance, reconnect with their own wisdom, and build lives and practices that are sustainable and genuinely nourish them.
You can find Coral at www.theenergypsychologist.org, and there is a growing library of free sessions for conscious therapists on her YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@TheEnergyPsychologist. To find out more about The Receiving Revolution, visit her website or find her on Instagram @theenergypsychologist.
keywords
Energy Psychology, EFT, Holistic Health, Mind-Body Connection, Spirituality in Psychology, Energy Medicine, Conscious Breathwork, Chakra, Meridian, Healing Techniques
key topics
Energy psychology techniques like EFT and meridian work
The integration of spirituality and science in mental health
Personal journey into energy medicine and holistic health
sound bites
"Energy is in motion in everything."
"Blocks to energy flow limit our potential."
"The future of holistic health is energetic."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Energy Psychology
06:18 Personal Journey into Energy Medicine
09:15 Bridging Science and Spirituality
14:22 The Receiving Revolution Program
18:14 Understanding Overgiving and Caregiving
22:52 The Importance of the Body in Mental Health
26:33 Exploring Love and Heart Energy in Psychology
30:32 The Future of AI in Therapy
33:54 The Evolution of Energy Psychology
35:35 Ten second outro video.mp4
resources
Energy Psychology Institute - https://energypsychologyinstitute.org/
Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) - https://www.palaceofpossibilities.com/

Wednesday Jun 10, 2026
Dr Coral Westaway (Video); Why Should Modern Psychology Embrace Energy and Spirituality?
Wednesday Jun 10, 2026
Wednesday Jun 10, 2026
summary
In this conversation Dr Naomi Murphy and David Jones meet with Dr. Coral Westaway and explore the world of energy psychology, its techniques like EFT, and its integration with traditional psychology. She shares her personal journey, the importance of holistic health, and how energy work can transform mental health practices.
Dr Coral Westaway is a Clinical Psychologist and Energy Psychotherapist with over 20 years of experience at the intersection of psychology, spirituality, and holistic health. Known as The Energy Psychologist, she brings together doctoral - level clinical training with energy psychotherapy, conscious connected breathwork, and body practice; creating a bridge between mainstream psychology and the energetic and spiritual dimensions of our lives.
Coral's work is rooted in a simple but radical belief: that the body holds our truth, and that real transformation happens not just in the mind, but through the whole system. Her own journey with stage 3+ colon cancer in 2021 deepened this understanding profoundly, and now informs everything she does.
Alongside her individual therapy and supervision work, Coral runs The Receiving Revolution : a 7 - week group programme for therapists, psychologists, and helping professionals who chronically overgive. These are the helpers who understand their patterns intellectually but find they cannot shift them at the level of the body and energy. The Receiving Revolution supports them to readdress that imbalance, reconnect with their own wisdom, and build lives and practices that are sustainable and genuinely nourish them.
You can find Coral at www.theenergypsychologist.org, and there is a growing library of free sessions for conscious therapists on her YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@TheEnergyPsychologist. To find out more about The Receiving Revolution, visit her website or find her on Instagram @theenergypsychologist.
keywords
Energy Psychology, EFT, Holistic Health, Mind-Body Connection, Spirituality in Psychology, Energy Medicine, Conscious Breathwork, Chakra, Meridian, Healing Techniques
key topics
Energy psychology techniques like EFT and meridian work
The integration of spirituality and science in mental health
Personal journey into energy medicine and holistic health
sound bites
"Energy is in motion in everything."
"Blocks to energy flow limit our potential."
"The future of holistic health is energetic."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Energy Psychology
06:18 Personal Journey into Energy Medicine
09:15 Bridging Science and Spirituality
14:22 The Receiving Revolution Program
18:14 Understanding Overgiving and Caregiving
22:52 The Importance of the Body in Mental Health
26:33 Exploring Love and Heart Energy in Psychology
30:32 The Future of AI in Therapy
33:54 The Evolution of Energy Psychology
35:35 Ten second outro video.mp4
resources
Energy Psychology Institute - https://energypsychologyinstitute.org/
Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) - https://www.palaceofpossibilities.com/

Friday Jun 05, 2026
Friday Jun 05, 2026
This episode Highlights an urgent situation that we would like you all to act upon by following the links below and doing what you can. In particular sign the petition. Jeffrey Lee is due to be executed 11th June and the podcast with Laurel Hattix sheds light on the urgent and complex issues surrounding the death penalty, wrongful convictions, and criminal justice reform in Alabama through the story of Jeffrey Lee. Laurel Haddix, an Assistant Federal Defender, discusses the systemic failures that contributed to his case and advocates for justice and change.
KEY TOPICS
The case of Jeffrey Lee: history, legal challenges, and imminent execution
How Alabama's system of judicial override led to wrongful sentencing
The impact of underfunded public defense, especially in capital cases
Racial disparities in the death penalty system and jury selection
The untested method of nitrogen hypoxia as a new form of execution
The importance of community, faith, and resilience among death row inmates
Legal and legislative efforts to abolish or reform judicial override
The role of public advocacy, petitions, and clemency in justice campaigns
Systemic failures: racial bias, lack of mental health resources, and structural injustice
How Alabama’s practice of "death qualifying" juries affects fairness in trials
The emotional toll on inmates, families, and advocates fighting against the death penalty
Timestamps:
00:02 - Introduction to Jeffrey Lee’s case and the significance of systemic injustice
00:31 - Details of the crime and initial trial background
01:21 - Flaws in legal representation due to systemic underfunding
02:45 - The impact of inadequate defense in capital cases
04:02 - Jury decision for life without parole vs. judicial override for death sentence
04:32 - Explanation of Alabama’s judicial override system
05:47 - The political vulnerability of judicial override decisions
06:44 - Reforms in Alabama: abolition of judicial override in 2017
07:36 - The retrospective impact of the reform and ongoing cases 08:54 - Challenges in current legal appeals and the role of clemency
09:57 - Advocacy strategies outside the court system
11:25 - Public perceptions of jury decision-making and justice transparency
12:57 - Community responses and why the process is misunderstood
14:24 - The mental health struggles of Jeffrey Lee and systemic neglect
15:46 - Jury selection biases and the effects of "death qualification" 18:11 - Development and disparities in Alabama’s death penalty practices
30:30 - The untested method of nitrogen hypoxia and its dangers
36:43 - The hope and faith of Jeffrey Lee’s resilience and advocacy
37:42 - How listeners can get involved and support the cause 38:48 - Closing remarks and call to action for justice and reformResources & Links:
Life for Jeffery Lee — Learn more about Jeffrey Lee’s story and how to help
https://www.lifeforjefferylee.com/action PETITION
Project Hope to Abolish the Death Penalty — Organization leading advocacy on Alabama’s death row

Friday Jun 05, 2026
Friday Jun 05, 2026
This episode Highlights an urgent situation that we would like you all to act upon by following the links below and doing what you can. In particular sign the petition. Jeffrey Lee is due to be executed 11th June and the podcast with Laurel Hattix sheds light on the urgent and complex issues surrounding the death penalty, wrongful convictions, and criminal justice reform in Alabama through the story of Jeffrey Lee. Laurel Haddix, an Assistant Federal Defender, discusses the systemic failures that contributed to his case and advocates for justice and change.
KEY TOPICS
The case of Jeffrey Lee: history, legal challenges, and imminent execution
How Alabama's system of judicial override led to wrongful sentencing
The impact of underfunded public defense, especially in capital cases
Racial disparities in the death penalty system and jury selection
The untested method of nitrogen hypoxia as a new form of execution
The importance of community, faith, and resilience among death row inmates
Legal and legislative efforts to abolish or reform judicial override
The role of public advocacy, petitions, and clemency in justice campaigns
Systemic failures: racial bias, lack of mental health resources, and structural injustice
How Alabama’s practice of "death qualifying" juries affects fairness in trials
The emotional toll on inmates, families, and advocates fighting against the death penalty
Timestamps:
00:02 - Introduction to Jeffrey Lee’s case and the significance of systemic injustice
00:31 - Details of the crime and initial trial background
01:21 - Flaws in legal representation due to systemic underfunding
02:45 - The impact of inadequate defense in capital cases
04:02 - Jury decision for life without parole vs. judicial override for death sentence
04:32 - Explanation of Alabama’s judicial override system
05:47 - The political vulnerability of judicial override decisions
06:44 - Reforms in Alabama: abolition of judicial override in 2017
07:36 - The retrospective impact of the reform and ongoing cases 08:54 - Challenges in current legal appeals and the role of clemency
09:57 - Advocacy strategies outside the court system
11:25 - Public perceptions of jury decision-making and justice transparency
12:57 - Community responses and why the process is misunderstood
14:24 - The mental health struggles of Jeffrey Lee and systemic neglect
15:46 - Jury selection biases and the effects of "death qualification" 18:11 - Development and disparities in Alabama’s death penalty practices
30:30 - The untested method of nitrogen hypoxia and its dangers
36:43 - The hope and faith of Jeffrey Lee’s resilience and advocacy
37:42 - How listeners can get involved and support the cause 38:48 - Closing remarks and call to action for justice and reformResources & Links:
Life for Jeffery Lee — Learn more about Jeffrey Lee’s story and how to help
https://www.lifeforjefferylee.com/action PETITION
Project Hope to Abolish the Death Penalty — Organization leading advocacy on Alabama’s death row

Wednesday Jun 03, 2026
Wednesday Jun 03, 2026
In this episode, Dr. Steph Davies shares her extensive experience working at the front lines of death investigations, challenging assumptions, and uncovering hidden truths in suspicious and staged scenes. Her insights highlight the importance of meticulous forensic analysis and the pressing need for improved training and procedures in the UK’s coronial system.
Stephanie Davies is a former Senior Coroner's Officer and now an independent inquisitorial death investigator. She has a forensic science and forensic psychology background, and she has been investigating deaths for over twenty years. She is now studying for a doctorate and she consults on complex cases on behalf of families and lawyers.
To find out more about Steph, please visit: www.deathinvestigator.co.uk
Key topics:
The roles and responsibilities of a coroner's officer versus a coroner
Steph’s journey from forensic science and psychology to death investigations
Challenges faced by deaf professionals in forensic fields
Bloodstain pattern analysis and staged crime scene recognition
Investigating suspicious deaths and recognizing red flags
The Wilmslow murders case: forensic re-evaluation and uncovering potential serial offenses
The importance of critical thinking and attention to detail in forensic investigations
The false narratives and misinterpretations in high-profile cases like Lucy Letby
The systemic issues and misconduct in police investigations and whistleblowing experiences
Comparing US and UK practices in death investigation and training gaps
The value of independent forensic consultancy in complex cases
How working with death emphasizes the significance of life and the importance of truth
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to Steph Davies and her forensic background
02:43 - Role of a coroner's officer and how it differs from a coroner
05:16 - Steph’s career journey and forensic interests
07:31 - Misconceptions about New York Police and forensic work in America
09:39 - Living with a hearing impairment and its impact on Steph’s career
12:36 - Day-to-day responsibilities of a coroner's officer and investigations
15:54 - Specialized training in staged crime scenes and bloodstain analysis
17:09 - Collaborating with police and other investigators on complex cases
18:41 - What drew Steph to investigate suspicious deaths and her inquisitive nature
22:39 - The Wilmslow murders: forensic re-examination and uncovering inconsistencies
27:53 - The potential presence of a serial offender and systemic investigation issues
32:13 - Re-evaluation of a series of suspicious cases and red flags
37:17 - The controversy and systemic flaws in police investigations and investigations’ aftermath
41:54 - Leaked reports, police misconduct, and challenges faced as a whistleblower
48:32 - The Lucy Letby case: forensic misinterpretations and miscarriages of justice
52:02 - Developing a moral compass and fighting systemic injustice
55:07 - Ongoing studies in coronial death determination and international practices
57:33 - Independent consulting work and future plans in complex forensic cases
60:02 - The impact of working with death on valuing life and pursuit of truth
Resources & Links:
Coronial Manner of Death Determination in Equivocal Deaths and Staged Crime Scenes (Doctoral Research) (replace with actual URL)
Note: This episode sheds light on the intricacies of forensic death investigations, emphasizing the importance of critical analysis, scientific rigor, and ethical responsibility in uncovering truth and justice.

Wednesday Jun 03, 2026
Wednesday Jun 03, 2026
In this episode, Dr. Steph Davies shares her extensive experience working at the front lines of death investigations, challenging assumptions, and uncovering hidden truths in suspicious and staged scenes. Her insights highlight the importance of meticulous forensic analysis and the pressing need for improved training and procedures in the UK’s coronial system.
Stephanie Davies is a former Senior Coroner's Officer and now an independent inquisitorial death investigator. She has a forensic science and forensic psychology background, and she has been investigating deaths for over twenty years. She is now studying for a doctorate and she consults on complex cases on behalf of families and lawyers.
To find out more about Steph, please visit: www.deathinvestigator.co.uk
Key topics:
The roles and responsibilities of a coroner's officer versus a coroner
Steph’s journey from forensic science and psychology to death investigations
Challenges faced by deaf professionals in forensic fields
Bloodstain pattern analysis and staged crime scene recognition
Investigating suspicious deaths and recognizing red flags
The Wilmslow murders case: forensic re-evaluation and uncovering potential serial offenses
The importance of critical thinking and attention to detail in forensic investigations
The false narratives and misinterpretations in high-profile cases like Lucy Letby
The systemic issues and misconduct in police investigations and whistleblowing experiences
Comparing US and UK practices in death investigation and training gaps
The value of independent forensic consultancy in complex cases
How working with death emphasizes the significance of life and the importance of truth
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to Steph Davies and her forensic background
02:43 - Role of a coroner's officer and how it differs from a coroner
05:16 - Steph’s career journey and forensic interests
07:31 - Misconceptions about New York Police and forensic work in America
09:39 - Living with a hearing impairment and its impact on Steph’s career
12:36 - Day-to-day responsibilities of a coroner's officer and investigations
15:54 - Specialized training in staged crime scenes and bloodstain analysis
17:09 - Collaborating with police and other investigators on complex cases
18:41 - What drew Steph to investigate suspicious deaths and her inquisitive nature
22:39 - The Wilmslow murders: forensic re-examination and uncovering inconsistencies
27:53 - The potential presence of a serial offender and systemic investigation issues
32:13 - Re-evaluation of a series of suspicious cases and red flags
37:17 - The controversy and systemic flaws in police investigations and investigations’ aftermath
41:54 - Leaked reports, police misconduct, and challenges faced as a whistleblower
48:32 - The Lucy Letby case: forensic misinterpretations and miscarriages of justice
52:02 - Developing a moral compass and fighting systemic injustice
55:07 - Ongoing studies in coronial death determination and international practices
57:33 - Independent consulting work and future plans in complex forensic cases
60:02 - The impact of working with death on valuing life and pursuit of truth
Resources & Links:
Coronial Manner of Death Determination in Equivocal Deaths and Staged Crime Scenes (Doctoral Research) (replace with actual URL)
Note: This episode sheds light on the intricacies of forensic death investigations, emphasizing the importance of critical analysis, scientific rigor, and ethical responsibility in uncovering truth and justice.

Wednesday May 27, 2026
Wednesday May 27, 2026
Following last weeks expanded conversation with Chris Scanlon about the Henderson Hospital Dr Fiona Warren discusses her journey through her research career which involved personality disorders, therapeutic communities, and service effectiveness. This episode, an expanded version of the original from 2021 explores the historical context, research challenges, and the future of treatment approaches. It complements the conversation with Dr Chris Scanlon.
'
I have worked in the NHS and academic psychology teaching and researching “Personality Disorders” and related aspects such as impulsive behaviours and self-harm; offending; attachment styles and mentalization; treatment outcomes and staff training since early 1990s, including ten years in Clinical Psychology Training. Having trained more recently in coaching, I am also interested in contributing to the evidence base in coaching psychology. I have taught and examined both quantitative and qualitative methodologies.
Doing much of my "growing up" as a psychologist and researcher in a Democratic Therapeutic Community, I am committed to the involvement of those with "lived experience" in Clinical Training, research and service development.'
Key topics:
Fiona Warren’s career path from Henderson Hospital to university research and coaching.
The significance of Henderson Hospital in pioneering personality disorder treatment.
Challenges and ethics of conducting research in sensitive settings.
Qualitative versus quantitative research methods in mental health.
Cost-effectiveness studies of Henderson Hospital and their implications.
Evolving understanding of trauma-informed care and its impact on research.
The influence of therapeutic community principles like democratization and reality confrontation.
Political, social, and structural factors affecting mental health service provision.
The debate around what defines a therapeutic community and research standardization.
Personal reflections on growth, healing, and the importance of nature and literature.
Timestamps: 00:00 - Fiona Warren's background and career journey02:23 - Heritage and research at Henderson Hospital04:33 - Balancing research independence and clinical activity06:58 - The importance of familiarity in research settings07:52 - Using qualitative methods in personality disorder research10:14 - Impact of trauma-informed conceptualizations on research11:37 - Cost effectiveness of Henderson Hospital13:03 - Service use reduction and economic implications15:10 - Trauma, challenging behaviors, and the role of therapeutic environments16:37 - Therapeutic pessimism and education in mental health treatment17:42 - Gender differences in trauma disclosure and treatment receptivity20:11 - Factors influencing the longevity and impact of research21:15 - Political and social influences on Henderson’s closure23:23 - Challenges of replicating and scaling therapeutic communities30:47 - Fiona Warren’s review of treatment for personality disorder35:32 - Debates around defining therapy and research standards in therapeutic communities40:49 - Reflections on Henderson Hospital's closure and its legacy55:06 - Personal sources of nourishment and resilience outside workResources & Links:

Wednesday May 20, 2026
Wednesday May 20, 2026
Five years ago, 2021, David Jones and Naomi Murphy began the Locked up Living podcast. Over 400 episodes later we are still going and are proud of the library of conversations we have produced with so many excellent colleagues. This is an extended version of an episode from 2021 previously shared with Dr Fiona Warren and focuses on the closing of the Henderson Hospital. The full episode with Dr Warren features a discussion about the value and meaning of research in a socio-political climate that wants to look elsewhere.
This episode features Dr. Christopher Scanlon, a consultant psychotherapist with decades of experience working with complex trauma and mental health services. Chris offers a candid reflection on the evolution, challenges, and possibilities of therapeutic communities, emphasizing the importance of social and relational approaches over purely biomedical models. Key topics:
The history and legacy of Henderson Hospital as a pioneering therapeutic community
How group and sociotherapy approaches foster belonging, resilience, and growth
Critiques of the biomedical model and the limitations of randomized controlled trials for complex social interventions
The impact of societal changes, neoliberal policies, and professional rivalries on specialist services
The concept of the "unhoused mind" and societal exclusion as a psychosocial phenomenon
Lessons from the demise of services like Henderson and what can be learned about service design and relational capacity
The importance of community, belonging, and holding space for marginalized individuals
How social dynamics and professional hierarchies influence treatment and organizational culture
The threat of privatization and market-driven approaches to mental health services
The importance of housing, inclusion, and societal belonging in healing trauma
Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Chris Scanlon's background and work
01:08 - The psychosocial orientation versus psychoanalytic models
02:05 - The role of group analysis and community in treatment
03:23 - Experiences working at Henderson Hospital
04:37 - The interface of community assessment and outreach
06:15 - Challenges of referral and ethical consent in high-security settings
08:11 - Critique of personality disorder label and trauma adaptation
09:37 - Systemic dysfunction and medicalization of complex trauma
11:34 - Attitudes towards difficult patients and systemic resistance
13:19 - The system's reliance on medication and lack of holistic treatment
14:17 - Iatrogenic effects and the failure of biomedical dominance
16:10 - Societal trauma, racism, exclusion, and the "unhoused" state
17:16 - Organizational culture at Henderson and peer influence
18:48 - The significance of social relationships over formal therapy 19:55 - Key moments of social connection as pivotal to healing
20:34 - The decline of sociotherapy in prison and community settings
22:39 - Hierarchies, professional identity, and relational humility 23:23 - The undervaluing of milieu and social space in treatment
24:50 - Difficulties of measuring multi-modal, relational interventions
26:54 - Challenges of evidence-based support and cost-effectiveness
29:56 - The cost benefits of residential and community-based services
32:32 - Political and professional rivalries in resource allocation
35:06 - The impact of commissioning practices on service sustainability
36:11 - Lessons from the closure of Henderson and systemic failure
38:09 - The role of community and relational trust in service efficacy
40:12 - The importance of understanding failure through political and social lenses
43:27 - The influence of market forces and privatization on service models
44:30 - The threat of profit motives and the privatization of mental health in prison
49:53 - The challenge of belonging and power in community settings
57:29 - Building capacity for creativity and resilience through social spaces
60:06 - The importance of trust, shared authority, and authentic relationships
61:52 - The culture of inquiry and the transferential space
66:14 - The significance of presence, continuity, and shared lived experience
68:42 - The concept of the "Hendo" as a transference object and community symbol
73:56 - The "unhoused mind": societal exclusion, trauma, and belonging
76:47 - Society's role in housing and trauma, and the psychosocial lens
78:35 - Broader societal issues: extremism, colonialism, and systemic injustice
80:36 - The healing power of shared community and relational space
81:12 - Personal reflections on the loss of Henderson and current gaps
81:58 - The dangers of societal disconnection and the importance of inclusive belonging

Wednesday May 13, 2026
Wednesday May 13, 2026
In this episode of Locked up Living, Naomi Murphy and David Jones discuss the life of Keith Grounsell, a veteran police officer with nearly 30 years of experience in the field. Keith has spent much of his career navigating the perilous world of undercover operations, infiltrating drug cartels and exposing corruption at the highest levels. Keith shares his harrowing experiences, from the adrenaline-fueled moments of deep undercover work to the psychological toll of living a double life. He explains how he balanced the constant danger with his commitment to integrity and justice, all while maintaining a strong family life. Keith opens up about the challenges of facing violent criminals, the mental strain of deception, and the sacrifices made along the way. He also discusses the importance of mental health, faith, and writing as tools for coping with trauma. This episode offers a rare glimpse into the personal and professional growth of a man dedicated to making a difference, despite the risks. Whether you're interested in law enforcement, personal development, or the impact of a high-stakes career on family life, this conversation promises to be both enlightening and inspiring. Listen to hear Keith's insights on leadership, resilience, and the ongoing fight for justice in a world fraught with danger and corruption.
keywords
law enforcement, undercover operations, leadership, integrity, mental health, crime, drug trafficking, corruption, resilience, public safety
key topics
Deep undercover operations and their psychological impact
Leadership challenges and integrity in law enforcement
The fight against drug trafficking and organized crime
sound bites
"Stress management is crucial for officers"
"Undercover work is scrutinized like no other"
"Integrity is the foundation of law enforcement"
Chapters
00:00 Keith Grounsell: A Journey Through Undercover Work
07:32 The Psychological Toll of Undercover Operations
12:04 The Drive for Excellence and Leadership
16:58 Facing the Consequences of Law Enforcement
22:55 The Struggles of Integrity in Law Enforcement
31:59 Understanding Human Trafficking and Its Roots
33:55 The Impact of Digital Exposure on Youth
34:53 The Psychological Toll of Undercover Work
40:58 The Journey of Writing and Storytelling
45:26 Navigating Relationships Amidst Public Scrutiny
50:06 Faith, Fitness, and Mental Resilience
56:14 The Unyielding Drive for Justice
01:01:23 Ten second outro video.mp4
resources
Keith Grounsell's Books - https://grounsellbooks.com/
https://igilacademy.com/
Law Enforcement Leader, Anti-Corruption Advocate, Master Instructor and AuthorWith over 26 years of leadership in law enforcement and international advisory roles, Keith Grounsell has built a career defined by integrity, resilience, and a relentless fight against corruption. As a two-time Chief of Police, former DEA Special Agent, and Senior Law Enforcement Advisor on U.S. Department of State and UN contracts, Keith has led in some of the world’s most demanding environments. His leadership has resulted in criminal convictions of corrupt officials, solidifying his role as an advocate for ethical leadership.Keith’s deep undercover work, captured in his A Narc’s Tale book series, inspired the A&E series Undercover: Caught on Tape, offering audiences raw insights into the challenges of law enforcement. His experiences working with over 30 countries—through post-hurricanes, pandemics like Ebola, civil wars, and more—equip him to speak powerfully on leadership under pressure, crisis management, and strategic planning in unpredictable environments.A published author of eight books, Keith also consulted on an award-winning human trafficking film, underscoring his dedication to justice and human rights. As a speaker, Keith captivates audiences with topics such as leadership, ethical decision-making, perseverance, working deep undercover, human trafficking, and overcoming adversity in challenging environments.His real-world experience and passion for integrity make Keith a sought-after keynote speaker and author. Whether addressing leadership challenges, career development, or community relations, his presentations and books inspire audiences to lead with purpose and create lasting change.

Wednesday May 13, 2026
Wednesday May 13, 2026
In this episode of Locked up Living, Naomi Murphy and David Jones discuss the life of Keith Grounsell, a veteran police officer with nearly 30 years of experience in the field. Keith has spent much of his career navigating the perilous world of undercover operations, infiltrating drug cartels and exposing corruption at the highest levels. Keith shares his harrowing experiences, from the adrenaline-fueled moments of deep undercover work to the psychological toll of living a double life. He explains how he balanced the constant danger with his commitment to integrity and justice, all while maintaining a strong family life. Keith opens up about the challenges of facing violent criminals, the mental strain of deception, and the sacrifices made along the way. He also discusses the importance of mental health, faith, and writing as tools for coping with trauma. This episode offers a rare glimpse into the personal and professional growth of a man dedicated to making a difference, despite the risks. Whether you're interested in law enforcement, personal development, or the impact of a high-stakes career on family life, this conversation promises to be both enlightening and inspiring. Listen to hear Keith's insights on leadership, resilience, and the ongoing fight for justice in a world fraught with danger and corruption.
keywords
law enforcement, undercover operations, leadership, integrity, mental health, crime, drug trafficking, corruption, resilience, public safety
key topics
Deep undercover operations and their psychological impact
Leadership challenges and integrity in law enforcement
The fight against drug trafficking and organized crime
sound bites
"Stress management is crucial for officers"
"Undercover work is scrutinized like no other"
"Integrity is the foundation of law enforcement"
Chapters
00:00 Keith Grounsell: A Journey Through Undercover Work
07:32 The Psychological Toll of Undercover Operations
12:04 The Drive for Excellence and Leadership
16:58 Facing the Consequences of Law Enforcement
22:55 The Struggles of Integrity in Law Enforcement
31:59 Understanding Human Trafficking and Its Roots
33:55 The Impact of Digital Exposure on Youth
34:53 The Psychological Toll of Undercover Work
40:58 The Journey of Writing and Storytelling
45:26 Navigating Relationships Amidst Public Scrutiny
50:06 Faith, Fitness, and Mental Resilience
56:14 The Unyielding Drive for Justice
01:01:23 Ten second outro video.mp4
resources
Keith Grounsell's Books - https://grounsellbooks.com/
https://igilacademy.com/
Law Enforcement Leader, Anti-Corruption Advocate, Master Instructor and AuthorWith over 26 years of leadership in law enforcement and international advisory roles, Keith Grounsell has built a career defined by integrity, resilience, and a relentless fight against corruption. As a two-time Chief of Police, former DEA Special Agent, and Senior Law Enforcement Advisor on U.S. Department of State and UN contracts, Keith has led in some of the world’s most demanding environments. His leadership has resulted in criminal convictions of corrupt officials, solidifying his role as an advocate for ethical leadership.Keith’s deep undercover work, captured in his A Narc’s Tale book series, inspired the A&E series Undercover: Caught on Tape, offering audiences raw insights into the challenges of law enforcement. His experiences working with over 30 countries—through post-hurricanes, pandemics like Ebola, civil wars, and more—equip him to speak powerfully on leadership under pressure, crisis management, and strategic planning in unpredictable environments.A published author of eight books, Keith also consulted on an award-winning human trafficking film, underscoring his dedication to justice and human rights. As a speaker, Keith captivates audiences with topics such as leadership, ethical decision-making, perseverance, working deep undercover, human trafficking, and overcoming adversity in challenging environments.His real-world experience and passion for integrity make Keith a sought-after keynote speaker and author. Whether addressing leadership challenges, career development, or community relations, his presentations and books inspire audiences to lead with purpose and create lasting change.

Wednesday May 06, 2026
Jean Trounstine (Audio); How Literature Transforms Women Behind Bars
Wednesday May 06, 2026
Wednesday May 06, 2026
Join Dr Naomi Murphy and David Jones as they delve into the transformative power of literature within the criminal justice system, through the inspiring insights of Jean Trounstine. An author, activist, and educator, Jean shares her decades of work supporting incarcerated women, the arts behind bars, and her journey creating impactful stories that challenge perceptions of justice and rehabilitation. Her first novel, 'Sounds like trouble to me' is released on 12th May.
In this episode, we cover:
Jean’s personal journey into prison education and theatre
The role of arts and literature in fostering rehabilitation
Differences between the US and England in prison programming
The impact of classic literature, including Shakespeare, behind bars
The significance of the Me Too movement in prison reform
The process of researching and ensuring authenticity in her writing
How storytelling can reveal the humanity of incarcerated women
The community and bonds formed among women in prison
Challenges and opportunities in addressing sensitive topics like abuse and trauma
Jean’s current projects and future plans for her writing
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to Jean Trounstine and her work in prison theatre02:06 - How literature and theatre started shaping her activism04:22 - The unique setting of Framingham Women’s Prison and its history05:50 - The decline in prison arts programs in the US06:42 - Comparing approaches to prison arts in England and the US08:33 - Plans to bring Shakespeare to women in prison10:02 - The importance of exposing prisoners to classical texts12:03 - Jean’s pioneering work directing Shakespeare in prison worldwide13:46 - Her journey from memoir to fiction with her novel “Sounds Like Trouble to Me”15:20 - True stories inspiring her novel16:18 - The uprising at Dublin’s federal prison and its influence on her work17:39 - The development of her characters inspired by real women19:26 - Building authenticity for prison-related details and legal accuracy22:03 - The storytelling process and discovering the narrative organically24:14 - The message of hope and resilience in her book, “Sounds Like Trouble to Me”25:52 - Addressing abuse, trauma, and societal myths about women in prison29:49 - The impact of her work on understanding and rethinking incarceration33:07 - The significance of the Me Too movement in her narratives37:42 - The importance of friendship and solidarity among women in prison40:54 - Personal stories that highlight vulnerability and connection43:56 - The influence of risk-taking and building trust through theatre48:48 - The “Changing Life Through Literature” program and its success54:22 - Upcoming projects and the future of Jean’s writing and activism

Wednesday May 06, 2026
Jean Trounstine (Video); How Literature Transforms Women Behind Bars
Wednesday May 06, 2026
Wednesday May 06, 2026
Join Dr Naomi Murphy and David Jones as they delve into the transformative power of literature within the criminal justice system, through the inspiring insights of Jean Trounstine. An author, activist, and educator, Jean shares her decades of work supporting incarcerated women, the arts behind bars, and her journey creating impactful stories that challenge perceptions of justice and rehabilitation. Her first novel, 'Sounds like trouble to me' is released on 12th May.
In this episode, we cover:
Jean’s personal journey into prison education and theatre
The role of arts and literature in fostering rehabilitation
Differences between the US and England in prison programming
The impact of classic literature, including Shakespeare, behind bars
The significance of the Me Too movement in prison reform
The process of researching and ensuring authenticity in her writing
How storytelling can reveal the humanity of incarcerated women
The community and bonds formed among women in prison
Challenges and opportunities in addressing sensitive topics like abuse and trauma
Jean’s current projects and future plans for her writing
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to Jean Trounstine and her work in prison theatre02:06 - How literature and theatre started shaping her activism04:22 - The unique setting of Framingham Women’s Prison and its history05:50 - The decline in prison arts programs in the US06:42 - Comparing approaches to prison arts in England and the US08:33 - Plans to bring Shakespeare to women in prison10:02 - The importance of exposing prisoners to classical texts12:03 - Jean’s pioneering work directing Shakespeare in prison worldwide13:46 - Her journey from memoir to fiction with her novel “Sounds Like Trouble to Me”15:20 - True stories inspiring her novel16:18 - The uprising at Dublin’s federal prison and its influence on her work17:39 - The development of her characters inspired by real women19:26 - Building authenticity for prison-related details and legal accuracy22:03 - The storytelling process and discovering the narrative organically24:14 - The message of hope and resilience in her book, “Sounds Like Trouble to Me”25:52 - Addressing abuse, trauma, and societal myths about women in prison29:49 - The impact of her work on understanding and rethinking incarceration33:07 - The significance of the Me Too movement in her narratives37:42 - The importance of friendship and solidarity among women in prison40:54 - Personal stories that highlight vulnerability and connection43:56 - The influence of risk-taking and building trust through theatre48:48 - The “Changing Life Through Literature” program and its success54:22 - Upcoming projects and the future of Jean’s writing and activism

Wednesday Apr 29, 2026
Wednesday Apr 29, 2026
Barbara Rawlings is a retired sociologist originally gaining her PhD in 1980 from Manchester University with an ethnography of a therapeutic community. She has specialised in qualitive research in a variety of public sector settings and particularly in therapeutic communities. These have been in both community and forensic settings, and have been both democratic therapeutic communities and the more hierarchical TCs which work with drug addiction. She is a co-opted member of CSAAP (Correctional Services Acccreditation and Advice Panel) and most recently has worked on research into the Living Learning Experience (LLE) which is an international training programme for therapeutic community staff.
summary
This interview with Barbara Rawlings explores the world of therapeutic communities, contrasting hierarchical and democratic models, their histories, and their impact on treatment outcomes. Discover insights into staff roles, community dynamics, and the importance of environment in recovery.
keywords
therapeutic communities, hierarchical vs democratic, addiction treatment, mental health, prison rehabilitation, community therapy, personality disorders, recovery models
key topics
Differences between hierarchical and democratic therapeutic communitiesHistory and origins of therapeutic communities in addiction and psychiatryRole of staff and residents in community dynamicsImpact of environment and social time on recoveryChallenges and successes in prison therapeutic communities
sound bites
"In democratic communities, everyone is almost an equal.""Enabling environments reflect real community life.""Mirroring behavior helps understand and change actions."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Therapeutic Communities03:16 Understanding Hierarchical vs. Democratic Therapeutic Communities06:40 The Role of Staff in Therapeutic Communities10:23 Length of Stay and Treatment Duration13:54 Research Insights on Therapeutic Communities18:37 Defining Success in Therapeutic Communities29:52 The Importance of Aftercare in Reintegration32:48 Evolution of Therapeutic Communities34:30 Active Ingredients of Democratic Therapeutic Communities36:19 Understanding Offence Paralleling Behavior39:58 Creating a Reflective Environment in Prisons43:24 Accreditation and Program Integrity in Therapeutic Communities49:35 The Role of Community and Fun in Therapeutic Settings52:50 Ten second outro video.mp4

Wednesday Apr 29, 2026
Wednesday Apr 29, 2026
Barbara Rawlings is a retired sociologist originally gaining her PhD in 1980 from Manchester University with an ethnography of a therapeutic community. She has specialised in qualitive research in a variety of public sector settings and particularly in therapeutic communities. These have been in both community and forensic settings, and have been both democratic therapeutic communities and the more hierarchical TCs which work with drug addiction. She is a co-opted member of CSAAP (Correctional Services Acccreditation and Advice Panel) and most recently has worked on research into the Living Learning Experience (LLE) which is an international training programme for therapeutic community staff.
summary
This interview with Barbara Rawlings explores the world of therapeutic communities, contrasting hierarchical and democratic models, their histories, and their impact on treatment outcomes. Discover insights into staff roles, community dynamics, and the importance of environment in recovery.
keywords
therapeutic communities, hierarchical vs democratic, addiction treatment, mental health, prison rehabilitation, community therapy, personality disorders, recovery models
key topics
Differences between hierarchical and democratic therapeutic communitiesHistory and origins of therapeutic communities in addiction and psychiatryRole of staff and residents in community dynamicsImpact of environment and social time on recoveryChallenges and successes in prison therapeutic communities
sound bites
"In democratic communities, everyone is almost an equal.""Enabling environments reflect real community life.""Mirroring behavior helps understand and change actions."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Therapeutic Communities03:16 Understanding Hierarchical vs. Democratic Therapeutic Communities06:40 The Role of Staff in Therapeutic Communities10:23 Length of Stay and Treatment Duration13:54 Research Insights on Therapeutic Communities18:37 Defining Success in Therapeutic Communities29:52 The Importance of Aftercare in Reintegration32:48 Evolution of Therapeutic Communities34:30 Active Ingredients of Democratic Therapeutic Communities36:19 Understanding Offence Paralleling Behavior39:58 Creating a Reflective Environment in Prisons43:24 Accreditation and Program Integrity in Therapeutic Communities49:35 The Role of Community and Fun in Therapeutic Settings52:50 Ten second outro video.mp4

Thursday Apr 23, 2026
Thursday Apr 23, 2026
In this episode Naomi and David explore with Sophie and Nujoji the nuanced experiences of women in prison who are convicted of murder, through the lens of therapeutic community research. We delve into the processes of change, identity reconstruction, and the significance of relational work in high-security settings.
In this episode:
The motivations behind working in women's prisons and the therapeutic community at HMP Send
Unique challenges faced by women convicted of murder and how their identities are shaped by societal labels
The importance of being nimble and relational in unpredictable prison environments
The role and impact of labels such as "murderer" on personal identity and social perceptions
Methodological insights: Why interpretive phenomenological analysis (IPA) was chosen for this research
Key themes: honesty, discomfort, turbulence, and their roles in psychological growth
The significance of belonging, love, and trust in healing and change processes
Staff strategies for supporting women through turbulence and maintaining professionalism amidst emotional challenges
Addressing racial biases and the importance of reflexivity within prison-based services
How staff self-care and team cohesion foster a therapeutic milieu under complex circumstances
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to research on women in therapeutic prison communities02:02 - Nujoji and Sophie’s backgrounds and motivations06:23 - Distinctiveness of the women's therapeutic community and research importance09:11 - Why interpretive phenomenological analysis was chosen10:36 - Participants' experiences of being labeled as "murderers"13:42 - The cycle of labels, fear, and identity16:00 - Society's role in condemning and the potential for change20:08 - Constructing the idea of being loved in a prison context23:22 - Moments of insight and change in therapeutic groups28:19 - The dynamics of group work and the impact of honesty and discomfort33:07 - Supporting women in tolerating turbulence and emotional regulation37:17 - The importance of boundaries and team dynamics in group settings44:10 - How large community groups help realign therapeutic processes48:50 - Addressing racial undertones and service reflection54:18 - The unique position of male staff working with women in prison58:36 - The relational nature of identity, difference, and race in therapy60:26 - Protecting staff well-being in emotionally charged environments64:24 - Concluding thoughts on memory, self-recrimination, and ongoing growth
This episode offers deep reflections on the complexity of prison-based therapeutic work, crucial for practitioners, policymakers, and anyone interested in the transformative potential within high-security environments.

Thursday Apr 23, 2026
Thursday Apr 23, 2026
In this episode Naomi and David explore with Sophie and Nujoji the nuanced experiences of women in prison who are convicted of murder, through the lens of therapeutic community research. We delve into the processes of change, identity reconstruction, and the significance of relational work in high-security settings.
In this episode:
The motivations behind working in women's prisons and the therapeutic community at HMP Send
Unique challenges faced by women convicted of murder and how their identities are shaped by societal labels
The importance of being nimble and relational in unpredictable prison environments
The role and impact of labels such as "murderer" on personal identity and social perceptions
Methodological insights: Why interpretive phenomenological analysis (IPA) was chosen for this research
Key themes: honesty, discomfort, turbulence, and their roles in psychological growth
The significance of belonging, love, and trust in healing and change processes
Staff strategies for supporting women through turbulence and maintaining professionalism amidst emotional challenges
Addressing racial biases and the importance of reflexivity within prison-based services
How staff self-care and team cohesion foster a therapeutic milieu under complex circumstances
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to research on women in therapeutic prison communities02:02 - Nujoji and Sophie’s backgrounds and motivations06:23 - Distinctiveness of the women's therapeutic community and research importance09:11 - Why interpretive phenomenological analysis was chosen10:36 - Participants' experiences of being labeled as "murderers"13:42 - The cycle of labels, fear, and identity16:00 - Society's role in condemning and the potential for change20:08 - Constructing the idea of being loved in a prison context23:22 - Moments of insight and change in therapeutic groups28:19 - The dynamics of group work and the impact of honesty and discomfort33:07 - Supporting women in tolerating turbulence and emotional regulation37:17 - The importance of boundaries and team dynamics in group settings44:10 - How large community groups help realign therapeutic processes48:50 - Addressing racial undertones and service reflection54:18 - The unique position of male staff working with women in prison58:36 - The relational nature of identity, difference, and race in therapy60:26 - Protecting staff well-being in emotionally charged environments64:24 - Concluding thoughts on memory, self-recrimination, and ongoing growth
This episode offers deep reflections on the complexity of prison-based therapeutic work, crucial for practitioners, policymakers, and anyone interested in the transformative potential within high-security environments.

Why 'Locked up Living?'
David is a psychotherapist who has worked leading therapeutic communities in English prisons and in Millfields, an NHS forensic setting in East London. Naomi is a Consultant Clinical and Forensic psychologist who was, for many years, clinical lead at The Fens, a treatment programme for serious offenders at HMP Whitemoor. We had both experienced painful and destructive forces in our work and so we set out to discover what things make a positive difference for staff and service users and what is it that makes things go wrong. Of course we found out that there is no easy answer but there are many fascinating and valuable experiences to be heard.






